Tankless Water Heater Replacement
I had a 40 gallon gas water heater to heat 4 sinks in a small office building. It was leaking, so I replaced it with a good deal Thermar Gas Tankless Water Heater. The pipes had to be changed to fit the new water heater. Now, the pilot light will not stay lit. I had a plumber look at it who said it would be better to replace the entire unit. According to the instruction manual, the coupler may be a problem, but it says contact Thermar. Since Thermar has gone out of business, as far as I can tell, I cannot do that. I'm in Columbus, Ohio and have not found a plumber who is familiar with Thermar Tankless and Thermar Tankless is seemingly quite different than the other tanklesses currently available. The four sinks are ADA approved and must be able to fit a wheelchair under the sink. Therefore, my guess is that the undersink water heaters are not the best choice. Obviously, I don't want to invest much MORE money into this project, but I do need hot water. What would be your suggestion? The water heater is in the basement; the sinks are on the first floor (two restrooms). The pipes are set for a tankless, and very little hot water capacity is needed. Thank you, LLLR111 Hello: LLLR111 Chances are very good the plumber is correct. Not good news granted, but if parts cannot be obtained there seems to be little choice but to replace the entire unit. Questions to you are, what is meant by good deal....??? Purchased the unit used from a dealer of used appliances? If so, contact them for service or repalcement with new unit....???? Private party sale? If private party sale, chances are that good deal is not so good for you... Can you get a refund? Get the unit fixed by the seller? With all the forseeable problems ahead, may be best to simply replace the unit with a new tankless or go back to a tank type unit. Another possible alternative is 2 seperate small electric hot water heaters under the sink(s) models. Installed in the bathroom(s) seperately under the sinks. Or one electric downstairs for both sinks. The resident plumbing professionals will have additional help, ideas and or suggestions. Check back several more times for those replies. Use the reply button to add any additional information or ask additional questions, etc. Using this method also moves the topic back up to the top of the list automatically. Web Site Host, Gas Appliances Topic Moderator Multiple Forums Moderator. Energy Conservation Consultant Natural Gas Appliance Diagnostics Technician. Personal Reminder: Buckle Up Drive Safely. The Life You Save, May Be Your Own. Have you considered using an electric tankless water heater There are very affordable models with excellent reliability and performance. My brother-in-law purchased a tankless water heater a few months ago. He says it works great, this is the one he has: Tankless Water Heater Titan SCR2 N-120 http://titanheater.com I'm thinking of getting one myself. Anyone have any comments Am I right in the following assumptions and calculations? 1 Btu raises the temperature of 1 lb water by 1є F 1 Btu = 1055 Watt seconds of electricity, or put the other way 1055 watt seconds = 1 Btu One manufacturer, Niagara Industries,( www.tanklesswaterheater.com ) offers a product rated at 10.8kw, and suggest 20 US gal. is sufficient for a bath. 10.8 kw = 10.24 Btu per second (10800/1055) 20 Gal. of water = 2.56 cu. ft. and weighs 160lb. A bathtub is about 4’ 6” long and 1’ 9” wide, (quite a conservative tub); giving an area of 7.875 sq. ft, therefore our water depth would be just less than 4”. Now, let’s look at heating our water. In winter the water inlet temperature could be 40єF. (Or lower) Body temperature 98.4єF…. say 100єF for ease of calculation Therefore we would need to raise the water temperature by 60єF, and this would only give us a bath that felt neither hot nor cold. (Ideal for the baby!) The number of Btu needed for the job = 160 X 60. (Weight of the water X rise in temperature) = 9,600 Btu Our heater mentioned above gives 10.24 Btu per second, Therefore it will take 9,600 /10.24 seconds to heat enough water, =937.5 seconds =15.625 minutes During this period the water will cool down unless your bathroom is at 100єF too! Conclusion: If you’re happy with 4” of bath water, at body temperature, your bathroom is kept at 100єF. all the equipment is 100% efficient, and you’re prepared to wait a quarter of an hour for it to fill, then this heater is for you! (Similar calculations for an 11.8kw model give a period of just over 14 minutes). If I'm wrong, I'd love to know where. Whatever happened to the good ole days where you put in a 50 or 60 gallon water heater.........and that was that. With increased R-value on tank heaters, has anyone figured what the percentage of loss or cost efficiency differences are in regards to tank to tankless? A good deal of gas 50 to 60 gallon water heaters have an energy guide rating of $145 to $175 per annum. With the average water heater these days around $300, how do the numbers equate to substantial savings? I would say the tankless setup would have to half the cost of operation of a tank water heater.......meaning $70 to $100 yearly operating costs to make a dent in the pocket...........and I am not even mentioning the considerable initial cost difference in the beginning......and the inability of common parts to make repairs on tank heaters to tankless. Such as the thread starter mentioned the good deal that now constitutes no availibility of parts. I would say the maker of that product shutting down was intentional.........therefore the lack of need to maintain a surplus of parts that will soon become defective over time. Honestly, ever heard of anyone making any ground when you have a product and the company is out of business? Nope. It is a business ploy to make the money quick, offer something that is staggering in less cost than the normal priced ones, and give it a few years till the buying curve starts to go down, and time to close shop, forever. I believe we are all a victim of good deals over time..........thinking that we bought something that has consumer confidence built in, only to find out that we are swiping credit cards for the exact same product, but of higher quality like we should of to begin with. Okay........now I'm rambling. Time for bed. Interesting calculation John. I cannot really see anything wrong with it although the one thing that comes to mind is that the definition of a BTU is as you state but when the water is at 39F (or something like that). You should require less energy to heat the water as it gets hotter due to the increased motion of the molecules and so I don't think you can apply the mathematics in a linear fashon as you've done. The only other thing is that with a tankless a very small quantity of water is heated at any period in time and so that rate of temp rise is probably a lot faster than in your calculation and so my guess would be based on my first assumtion that it would take less than your calculated time to fill 20 gallons at 100F. Tankless water heaters are not new products. Been around for many years. Problem has always been for the manufacture the service support needed and parts availability. In most cases the manufacturer does not have a marketing problem. Always a big box chain retailer willing to market such products. Manufacturer than likely to build it's service and part support base after the sale and may or may not do so quickly. Problem the above creates is consumers are unaware of the lack of parts and service availability at time of purchasing. Such is not discovered until service and parts are needed but no where to be found. No service and no parts are available or parts available but no trained and or qualified services person to perform the repairs on the unit. Which leaves the customer, long after the sale was made, with a non useable unit and no means to get hot water heater fixed. Thus not having hot water but rather IN hot water. Customer up a tree without a ladder. Savings? Where would the savings been than? None apply. Unit inoperable, no hot water and no one to fix the unit and or no parts available. Where is the savings? There isn't any. Saving fuel costs. Maybe some or slightly but not always so. Have to amortise cost savings over the expected service life of the unit to obtain the true savings costs. In operable units are plentyful in some areas for the reasons stated about. Where is the savings than and fuel cost should not be amortised over the non operational time periods. Basic question applies. Would you buy a new car without dealer agencies to do warranty services during the warranty period? Buy new vehicle without any manufacturers dealer repair service facilities? Same and like questions consumers should ask prior to purchases made of almost any other major applainces. Same questions asked in meetings with manufacturers at major utilities, large plumbing companies, parts suppliers, etc when asked to market manufacturers products. Where is the support to back up the sales? Wasn't any or not enough to support the potential and actual volume of product sales. Thus energy companies, gas or electric utilities, large plumbing companies, etc) do not sell tankless water heaters. At least not in this area. Large chain retailers do not have to provide after sales parts, service or support. They only sell the product line. Consumers after sale problem(s) is their problem and not the retailers problem. Buyer beware. Good 'ol days are still alive and doing well.... Tank type water heaters selling well from what I can tell from industry leaders. Tank water heaters will be the industry sales selling leaders for many years to come...long live the tanks....
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